Are you sure? I favour CFW because it follows on from the commonly used HW and SW for Hardware and Software and CF is commonly Compact Flash. I don't think those are the same reasons.
Assume v. Presume
- Thread starter Black Hole
- Start date
OP
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
But you cannot deny that "firmware" is all one word, the same as "Microsoft".
No, not denying that. : )
OP
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
My point was that "cannot be under-estimated" is the exact opposite of the intended meaning. "Must not be under-estimated" makes sense in context, and might be what was intended, but I read it that the intention was "impossible to over-estimate".
To be honest I have always been confused by these expressions and prefer not to use them, probably because I am picky about what words like "cannot" actually imply - like the sign I saw at the National Birds of Prey Centre reading "dogs cannot be brought onto these premises" when a simple "no dogs allowed" would be sufficient and a correct statement.
Trev
The Dumb One
In my ignorance, I cannot see how "cannot be under-estimated" is the exact opposite of the intended meaning. "Must not be under-estimated". Although I do understand that the original quote is obviously factually wrong as it CAN be under-estimated but might not be. Your quote indicates that although it can be under-estimated, it should not, as the building's heritage is an important part of history. (Or is heritage and history the same thing?) And of course, your "Must" implies compulsion. What is the punishment for not doing so? I prefer the word 'should'
Of course dogs can be taken on to their premises. They may not like it, but it is possible so to do.
Of course dogs can be taken on to their premises. They may not like it, but it is possible so to do.
OP
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
This highlights the point and why the general public don't seem to have a problem with these expressions. In the context, somebody was expressing a wish to ensure a heritage building is preserved. Clearly (to me, if nobody else), "cannot be under-estimated" means that (logically) the value to heritage will be either properly estimated or over-estimated, when surely the intention is to implore that the value shall not be under-estimated? "Cannot be over-estimated" (to me) implies that the item in question is of extreme importance (to them) that no estimation of its value can express.
"Must" is an imperative form appropriate to the cause, is it not, as in "in order to advance our cause, the value must not be under-estimated"? The 'punishment' is that the cause fails. I accept that "should" would be suitable substitute for "must" in many instances, although perhaps not in this precise context.
OP
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
On a similar theme, what does "never knowingly undersold" mean?
I assume/presume (choose whichever you consider more appropriate) that you are talking about John Lewis stores here. It means never selling something at stated price if made aware, at time purchase, of the same item being sold cheaper in any other retail outlet. In which case the lower price is matched. Where is the ambiguity in that simple statement? Unless, of course, you are suggesting that once informed, the stated price should be lowered for each and every subsequent purchase in any JLP store.
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Luke
Well-Knwοn Мember
Changing the subject 'slightly', that definition is at variance to John Lewis's conditions for a refund and you may be loosing out. Earlier this year I claimed back what I considered a worthwhile amount for the effort because John Lewis had lowered the price of the item within 28 days. I.e. It's not just any 'other' outlet and the comparison (and claim) period is for 28 days.
The down side to the variance is it’s not 'any' outlet as for physical stores it has to be within 8 miles radius. What makes it even harder to claim is that it is not a comparison of the item, but the same item sold with the same service conditions. ‘Service conditions’ includes the extended guarantees that John Lewis automatically include in the shelf price of electrical goods. Fortunately as my 2014 claim was a comparison with the reduced John Lewis price I did not have to jump through hoops to get my money back, (although I did have to remind them to submit the credit to my bank account!).
OP
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
But that's not what "undersold" means - at least not if it means the opposite of "oversold". I have long thought that whoever came up with the slogan hadn't thought it out properly.
Luke
Well-Knwοn Мember
Undersold is the past and past participle of undersell. The oxford dictionary includes in its definitions of undersell "Sell something at a lower price than (a competitor)".
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/undersell
If John Lewis meant that the selling in the phrase 'never knowingly undersold' is being done by their competitor then the phrase would mean that they have never knowingly had a competitor selling at a lower price then their price.
If John Lewis meant that the selling in the phrase 'never knowingly undersold' is being done by themselves then the phrase would mean that they have never knowingly sold anything cheaper than one of their competitors.
Really ? It would be difficult to find better one which conveys the same meaning (to most people anyway, which excludes all the pedants who frequent this thread) in just three words. Can anyone suggest a better one using three words or less ?
OP
Black Hole
May contain traces of nut
"Never knowingly undersold" only means what JL want it to mean because they used it as their slogan. If you had asked somebody what it meant before JL coined it and it became well known, I don't think anyone would have had the slightest idea. Okay, so it has become part of the language since, but you can't tell me that an intelligent person would look at it and say that it means what it has commonly come to mean. It doesn't hang together.
Regardless of what the dictionaries might say (and let's remember that dictionaries only record how words have been used), "oversold" means (to me) that something is talked up beyond its reasonable limit; over-estimated if you like. Therefore "undersold" means played down. "Never knowingly undersold" therefore, logically, means either correctly sold or oversold - so JL are saying they use Dell-Boy sales tactics.
So your three words or less/fewer logical alternative would be.......?
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